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LSaupe |
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Flight Leader
Posts: 161
Time Online: 1 days 10 hours 40 minutes
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Do any of you have a good reference for the ballast exemption talked about at the 13:51 point of this Heaven Bound video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PBz0VHkXzUI have searched, but unfortunately cannot find anything. |
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Bob Daly |
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Ace
Posts: 888
Time Online: 45 days 22 hours 25 minutes
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Advisory Circular AC103-7 doesn't mention ballast weight except in regard to unpowered free balloon ultralights. The only exclusions it does specify for powered ultralights are parachute systems and floats for water operations. I think the ballast exclusion is wishful thinking. In my experience with govt regulations, when exclusions or exemptions are enumerated they are all-encompassing. |
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radfordc |
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Ace
Posts: 1,836
Time Online: 18 days 1 hours
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I've been involved with Part 103 for over 25 years and have never heard of an exemption for "ballast"? There are arguments that say that anything removeable and not needed for flight isn't included in the empty weight of the aircraft. This could include such things as a handheld radio, seat cushions, etc. Perhaps he has determined that the "ballast" is a removeable item not needed for flight? Seems like a reach to me. |
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TreeTopsTom |
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Ace
Posts: 566
Time Online: 26 days 13 hours 37 minutes
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If the empty weight does not include the fuel (which I imagine you would be able to remove before the FAA weighed you). as well as the mentioned radios, seat cushions... Then why couldn't you "reach" to consider the ballast a removable item as well? If you design it as accessible & removable, I would feel comfortable (even at a "ramp check" ) removing it along with all the other stuff I would remove before a scale weighing by the FAA. Sure, it's splitting hairs but so is being worried about your vehicle weighing #254 or #261. I don't think anyone is going to hassling you if you don't give them CAUSE to. How about designing a liquid ballast of 20 or 30 foot of coiled up 3/4" ID fuel line. Have some quick connect check valves. Now you can increase your fuel capacity (fuel in the fuel lines does NOT count towards the 5 gallon limit) and have a removable/drain able ballast! wonder how much fuel 20 foot in a 3/4" ID line would be in gallons /weight? Not enough? Make it 40 foot of line! PS: My limited math knowledge says 20 foot of 3/4" ID line is 424.8 cubic inches. Gallon of liquid is 231 CI. So were looking at slightly less than 2 extra gallons of fuel & at 6.3 pounds per gallon that's a ballast weight of about say 12 pounds. Of course you can adjust your ballast/fuel design weight by just decreasing or increasing your fuel line length or diameter. Yeah, I know it sounds like a crazy idea. But it's an option that (could) work & provide you extra fuel capacity (though you would never really want to use it because if you got down to drawing out those last two gallons you will also be starting to have CG issues! But you could have 5 USABLE gallons of fuel for flight. This is ultralight territory here, Ya gots to be thinking outside the box!!! LOL JMHO as always TTT |
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joe.scalet |
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Flight Leader
Posts: 155
Time Online: 2 days 1 hours 58 minutes
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Has anyone on this thread ever seen an FAA inspector look at or weigh a part 103 aircraft? In the last 20 years I don't believe I've ever seen an FAA line check at our airport. |
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Bob Hoskins |
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Fly Safe Ace
Posts: 1,208
Time Online: 38 days 16 hours 39 minutes
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Hey Joe LOL, no I have never seen ANYBODY "ramp checked". But I would like to comment on the "ballast". Obviously it was needed to get the C/G in the proper position. Removing it would therefore make the plane unairworthy. A little common sense will do wonders here. TTT, good grief, LOL. Glad to see you post again. Bob |
| Fly safe and have fun. |
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joe.scalet |
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Flight Leader
Posts: 155
Time Online: 2 days 1 hours 58 minutes
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Bob: Until last year the hangar directly behind mine (north side, not facing runway) was leased by a FISDO agent. Nice guy, he old me he would have loved to have a south facing hangar along the runway but then he would have to be working all the time! |
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Bob Hoskins |
January 27, 2021, 10:17pm |
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Fly Safe Ace
Posts: 1,208
Time Online: 38 days 16 hours 39 minutes
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Hey Joe yea, out of sight and out of mind, LOL. Just don't claim ultralight with 2 gas caps, lol. Bob |
| Fly safe and have fun. |
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joe.scalet |
January 27, 2021, 10:46pm |
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Flight Leader
Posts: 155
Time Online: 2 days 1 hours 58 minutes
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One tank is 5 gal. for fuel, the other is for smoke oil! |
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Bob Hoskins |
January 27, 2021, 11:00pm |
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Fly Safe Ace
Posts: 1,208
Time Online: 38 days 16 hours 39 minutes
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Hey Joe LOL, yea, when I fly my Chief inverted I always get some smoke oil on the windshield!!! And I only have one gas cap! Bob |
| Fly safe and have fun. |
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ITman496 |
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Ace
Posts: 411
Time Online: 1 days 23 hours 31 minutes
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hahaha.. I have two gas gaps.. I just want a balanced load! |
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joe.scalet |
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Flight Leader
Posts: 155
Time Online: 2 days 1 hours 58 minutes
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Maybe I should just placard the cap "Unuseable Fuel. |
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ITman496 |
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Ace
Posts: 411
Time Online: 1 days 23 hours 31 minutes
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Just call it removable ballast! |
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TreeTopsTom |
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Ace
Posts: 566
Time Online: 26 days 13 hours 37 minutes
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Bob: It's not a Plane, It's an "air vehicle". Also it's an "ultralight" air vehicle. While my post was half halfheartedly meant as humor, I see no reason it could not be done! What we are talking about here is a way for all those that ask questions about #254 (IE: Those that fear a "ramp check" ) Being able to gain the required weight (ballast) but ALSO be able to UNLOAD it if they are being weighed. Fuel weight is NOT included in the #254. Fuel in the "LINES" is NOT considered part of the fuel quantity measured for the 5 gallon limit imposed. I have FIVE gas caps! One on each of my ONE gallon tanks. What's this about only having one cap to claim ultralight? Common Sense! Have you been out in society lately? Common Sense left the building with Elvis! As you can see Half Hearted humor. BUT also Thinking outside the box for those wondering how to add ballast & not have a permanent chunk of lead bolted down. You could also build a spot to bring SPOT along with you for ballast. (Your 4 legged friend). Just tie him with a leash so he cant move and now you have X weight ballast! And since it's not a "Person" you are still ultralight legal. No written 103"s on taking your dog for a ride with you are there? Put that in your FAA pipe & smoke it Mr. G Man Ramp checker! After all, If you are flying an AIR VEHICLE and having to deal with some Power Trip FAA G Man, You probably should have some pretty good stories (excuses) about what's going on with your bird. PS: While I have not seen any Govt. activity (ramp checks) either, In the few cases I know of/heard of, I never heard of one doing any W & B check, So that the air vehicle in question would no longer be in correct balance when you drain the fuel/ballast. Who cares? Their checking weight, not is it's "air worthy". If it were "air worthy" we probably wouldn't be talking "ultralights" here!!! LOL Common man' Are you on Cocaine!!! Common man' I don't talk about that flying stuff with anyone in my family. Common man'. LOL.....Hope you enjoy the humor in the post. And the POSSIBILITIES!!! TTT |
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TreeTopsTom |
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Ace
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Time Online: 26 days 13 hours 37 minutes
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ulbuilder |
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N349LE Ace
Posts: 302
Time Online: 8 days 20 hours 59 minutes
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103 does state that anything attached to the airframe is considered part of the weight. Even explicitly says instruments are included in the weight. An instrument pod that attaches with velcro or maybe a ratchet strap could be excluded or a jury could decide it does count because the regs say instruments count. 103 says nothing about baggage compartments or baggage tie down areas. So maybe some heavy lead baggage could be excluded from the weight. But if the government is out to get you they can argue to the jury that the ultralight cannot fly without that lead and as such it is part of the airframe. The only person I know of that the government wanted to throw the book at for ultralight violations was the postman who landed his overweight gyro on the capitol lawn. "Hughes initially faced charges of flying without an airman's certificate, operating an unregistered aircraft, flying in restricted national-defense airspace without a flight plan and labeling a vehicle falsely as part of the Postal Service. He pleaded guilty only to failing to have a pilot's license, which the FAA required because his modifications made the aircraft weigh more than 254 pounds and because of the larger gas tank" Source: https://www.usatoday.com/story.....rict-court/73571784/So unless you upset the government, or some Karen who will call the FAA everyday until they 'do something' about you, these grey areas are unlikely to ever be an issue. |
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joe.scalet |
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Flight Leader
Posts: 155
Time Online: 2 days 1 hours 58 minutes
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If FISDO (Flight Standards District Office) disapproved of your reading of the regs, the inspector may just tell you to change it. If they issue a notice of violation, then you either have to comply or appeal. If you are willing to spend the money to get an attorney your hearing will be before an Administrative Law Judge. No jury of your peers, they are all far superior to you! That said, except at fly-in's, airshows, etc. I have never heard of any one having their aircraft randomly inspected. |
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radfordc |
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Ace
Posts: 1,836
Time Online: 18 days 1 hours
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I had one interaction with the FAA in my ultralight (Quicksilver MX...over 254 lbs). My friend and I flew to an airshow and we both landed after the runway was closed. I was told to report to the FAA guy at the FBO...he asked if I had a pilot license. I said no and he said don't ever do that again. My friend who was an ex airline pilot got raked over the coals by the FAA inspector, but no fines or other serious penalty.
Another friend who was also a licensed pilot crashed his two place fat ultralight (no training exemption) into a tree. The FAA suspended his pilot certificate for six months and made him take some remedial training. Also no fines.
Generally, don't come to the FAA's attention and you are good to go. |
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