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petemitchell
January 8, 2021, 7:32pm Report to Moderator
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I am about to begin construction on a V-Max.  This will likely be the first of many stupid questions, but here goes.  The wing struts are designed as part of the landing gear on the V-Max and most models.  Can the struts be attached to the bottom of the fuselage instead?  This would allow an aluminum or fiberglass gear similar to the Hi-Max to be used.  The new angle would change the loads.  The Supermax has the wings moved from mid-wing to a low-wing position and that move also changes the angle of the struts on that model from the other models. (I hope that last sentence makes sense).  I don't know if those struts have been beefed up over other models to account for the change.

Adding a little "suspension" to the gear would be nice to help with my carrier landings.  Aluminum gear might also allow for different axle and brake configurations.  

I tried to attach a picture of what I thinking.  In the picture, a guy changed a parasol to a mid-wing on a Texas Parasol but kept the struts attached to the bottom of the fuselage.

Has this been attempted before, or is it just a terrible idea?



Attachment: img_1734_1960.pdf
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Stilson
January 9, 2021, 12:39am Report to Moderator
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I recommend looking into changing to more squishy tires rather than making a major airframe change. The struts, spars, and wing diagonal bracing would all have to be reevaluated if you change the angle.  I would not consider it a small change, and would advise against it with out many other modifications.
That being said, I have napkin engineered a few times making a mini oleo strut gear extension that attaches in the plans location for the axles and just shifts the wheel axle centerline an inch or so to provide some suspension 🤔, I recommend bigger low pressure tires and if you must deviate from plans the engineering is much simpler (and safer) to cobble on a suspension with what the airframe has than redesign the airframe.  Others may disagree, and I respect that.
(Edit) it's a conventional configuration, that gives it a built in (suspension) in most circumstances.
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Tom
January 9, 2021, 12:54pm Report to Moderator
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You might consider building a Hi-Max with VW conversion for the engine.  That would preserve the engineering.  But you can't just change the strut angle without re-calculating and testing everything to do with the wings.  I should mention also that I tell my students:  "There is no such thing as a stupid question.  It is only stupid to stop asking questions."

Tom
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aeronut
January 9, 2021, 5:38pm Report to Moderator

blue sky and tail winds to everyone
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While I usually applaud thinking outside the box this modification to a proven design is a major undertaking to do it safely. Perhaps the solution to your need for a softer landing gear is best met by a search, for a proven design, that incorporates the landing gear that you desire.Best wishes as you move forward in your aviation desires. Stay safe.


never surrender; never give-up
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Bob Daly
January 9, 2021, 9:16pm Report to Moderator
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There was a guy, in Mexico I think, who had a youtube video of his plane. It's doable.
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petemitchell
January 10, 2021, 1:35pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for the input.  As I suspected, this “what if” idea is more effort than what it’s worth.  I am not interested in engineering a new wing structure.

The information about the VMax not having a canopy is interesting.  I purchased a VMax kit with a canopy added on.  

I do like the HI-Max, but my daily driver is a Cessna 150.  I bought the VMax kit for several reasons, one being the mid wing design.  I just think it looks cool.
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Fenix
January 10, 2021, 2:47pm Report to Moderator
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I agree with the soft tires suggestion.  TEAM offers a Tundra Tire that should give even more shock absorption - note the wheel is wider so must be planned for when building the axle.  Keep the tire pressure low and you have shocks and brakes all in one.

I had a V-Max and it was a great airplane.  I am getting ready to build another, 20 years later.  I never felt the need for more shock absorption and landed on asphalt and grass runways but never "off airport".  

In regard to moving the struts:  Yes this is a major structural change.  The tension on the struts and the compression in the wing spars between the fuselage and the strut (and the same compression on the fuselage carry through structure) is a function of the angle the strut attaches to the wing.  The plans show this at 30 degrees which by the way, according to my reading is the rule of thumb minimum.  This is for two reasons: 1 - a more acute angle between the wing and strut creates aerodynamic interference (drag) between the strut and wing.  More drag is not that big of a concern for a minimax pilot with all its drag anyway.  But the stresses on the wing/strut system begin to get "really big".  For example:  (Note I am not an engineer but the following is according to my "uncredentialed" understanding of the formulas)  At the 30 degree angle shown in the plans every pound of lift the wing produces puts 2 pounds of tension in the struts and 1.73 pounds of compression in the wing spars.  Change this to 15 degrees and every pound of lift creates 3.8 pounds of tension in the struts and 3.67 pounds of compression in the spars (more than double the amount of the per plans assy).  Drawing a quick line on a 3 view minimax drawing and putting my protractor on it looks like moving the strut to the bottom of the fuselage makes this angle only 10 degrees (unless you raise the wing to something more like what appears in the photo attached by the OP)  At 10 degrees every pound of lift creates 5.76 pounds of tension and 5.67 pounds of comprression.  So yes, these are major changes of forces that would need to be engineered for.  

Note:  If this is attempted another consideration is that the struts apply their tension loads to the axle which can handle this tension.  If you attach the struts to the fuselage the fusealage must have a tension member crossing the fuselage to carry these loads through.  I'm sure the Hi Max shows something like this.

In regard to a HI V Max:  Not sure why it is indicated against in the manual.  One reason may be because the seat of the V Max is moved back (all the way against the rear spar carry through) due to the added weight of the VW.  The longer version of the "warning" perhaps should read the V Max cannot be made into a Hi Max UNLESS you build the fuselage shown in the V Max plans and then add the high wing.  There may be other good reasons why the V Max should not be built as a Hi Max however, coincidentally I just ordered V Max and Hi Max plans and talked with David Cooper and he said just that, to be sure to build the fuse as shown in the 1550 V Max plans.  He did not give any other warning about a Hi Wing V Max.
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Bob Daly
January 10, 2021, 8:17pm Report to Moderator
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Fenix's analysis is correct. Add to his list, the inboard diagonal drag truss member loads nearly double. Compression buckling of the main strut under negative g has to be checked as well.
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