I have an opportunity to pick up a nice 532 for a stupid-good deal, and I was wondering if anyone had experience with using this engine in the V-Max, or some insight into the feasibility of this? Thanks!
Might depend some of how much success you have had with the 532. In my Kitfox days, the engines didnt hold up very well and had a rather peaky power band. When the 582 came out most folks switched over. Much nicer performing engine. Dont know of anyone really still running a 532. Resale has also been tough on the 532
Sadly, we had a fatal Mini Max crash here in middle Tennessee about 3 years ago. The owner had been chasing 532 engine issues, until one day he burned a hole in a piston on takeoff. Certainly, I don't want to blame the engine, because it could have been operator issues, but after this accident I heard several comments that the 532 had problems, which were fixed in the 582.
I heard several comments that the 532 had problems, which were fixed in the 582.
This is exactly what I've heard over the years in the UK. They were the standard engine in the Hornet RS-ZA weightshift and French Aviasud Mistral 2-seat microlight biplane. I had a ago in one once and it ran fine from take-off to landing (err... taxied OK too).
Point is I suppose that if it's cheap and it runs on the ground well enough then it's good enough for our type of flying because engine failures are simply *expected* to happen. Any engine.
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I did the Rotax maintenance courses here in the UK, quite a few years ago now. The 532 was a popular motor then. The 582 offered dual spark and thus enhanced safety. There were plenty of 532s that ran well for long hours. The main issue with any of the Rotax 2 strokes was fuel mismanagement (wrong oil/fuel ratio) and incorrect carb jetting. In my opinion, you shouldn't be too scared of a 532 but check it's service history and hours run and if you can, take a look at the pistons.
Every one who had a 532 in this area got rid of them very fast as soon as the 582 or the double ignition 503 where in production. Not even the low budget pilots wanted to deal with them any longer.
The 582 is liquid cooled, so you'd need to work out where to put the radiator. From memory, the radiator is about 120 sq.ins, or thereabouts (check the Rotax site for details).
I schemed an installation for my Eros when i considered using this engine. I recessed the top half of the radiator into the floor of the engine bay, so only the bottom half was outside the normal fuselage profile. I had it in a scoop, with the inside duct a sheet of thin ply, & the outer part in FRP. The outlet cross sectional area was bigger than the inlet CSA, to ensure adequate airflow. I also put in an outlet through the floor of the cockpit, which could be opened to provide cabin heating for winter flying
I still didn't like the extra frontal area needed for the liquid cooling, so went for the MZ202 instead. 60hp at 85 pounds weight of this engine certainly gives good performance.
Bruce
p.s. I think you need to delete about 3 pages of empty space on your last posting!!
The Kitfox belly radiator is a nice option. Profile isnt horrendous and does a great job. Link below isnt direct to the item, need to go to on-line catalog and then to aluminum radiator. I had mine fitted with a set of louvers controllable from the cockpit to help keep the temps up nice in the winter or for long descents.
This is a post I had to delete between Ricardo's and Beragoobruce's posts, because I had to delete it. There was about 100 blank lines that I couldn't edit out for some reason.:
"Is the 582 a good match for the V-Max? Compared to the VW? What sort of kinks have to be worked around? How about the 582 in the V-Max? How would it compare to the VW in that plane? Any special mounting or running kinks to work out?"
This is a post I had to delete between Ricardo's and Beragoobruce's posts, because I had to delete it. There was about 100 blank lines that I couldn't edit out for some reason.:
"Is the 582 a good match for the V-Max? Compared to the VW? What sort of kinks have to be worked around? How about the 582 in the V-Max? How would it compare to the VW in that plane? Any special mounting or running kinks to work out?"
ZK-EDA Evans VP 1 can be seen on you tube with 582 engine and the climb is unlike a standard VP 1.
The Air Creation Kiss and GTE trikes have a neat mounting for their Rotax 582 radiators. They mount the radiator under the trike at an angle of about 15 degrees up from the horizontal, with the back end higher than the front. They then encase this in a ram air scoop so that air goes in the front of the scoop, and is forced through the radiator in order to escape from under it. You might be able to just see what I mean in this photo.
Such a radiator fitment as shown in my previous post would be quite neat, and wouldn't increase the frontal area of the plane by much. If painted up to look like a shark's mouth it could be quite effective as a bit of nose art too.
Would be interesting to see what the exit path looks like. Just a thought... trikes don't really have the full fuselage blockage/resistance like a Max might, so it might buy them an opportunity in this situation. Very nice looking execution though.
This is a post I had to delete between Ricardo's and Beragoobruce's posts, because I had to delete it. There was about 100 blank lines that I couldn't edit out for some reason.:
"Is the 582 a good match for the V-Max? Compared to the VW? What sort of kinks have to be worked around? How about the 582 in the V-Max? How would it compare to the VW in that plane? Any special mounting or running kinks to work out?"
Wow ! I can't even claim that English is a second language for me! Anyway, Do you think that mounting the radiator in the airstream like that would possibly adversely affect its handling characteristics (like an airbrake or spoiler), or not to a significant extent?
The 532 is one of those weard voodoo engines, that nobody understands so it just gets banned from the aviation community and nobody understands what really happened. from my experience of test flying a skyranger with a 532, the engine would loose power once you gained flying speed,
I would imagine the exit path for the air would look like the airflow in the diagram below.
Yep, that should work (I was thinking out the top like I believe the trike is), but yep that makes more sense in this case. Might be worth seeing how drag and weight compares to the Kitfox belly radiator (as the trikes are kinda slow movers in comparison). Kitfox are quite slim (with regard to frontal area), a cowling package is also available (just as a comparison).
The trike option is quite sharp and clean looking.
The main issue with any of the Rotax 2 strokes was fuel mismanagement (wrong oil/fuel ratio) and incorrect carb jetting.
^What he said.^
Also: not inspecting the fuel system, not rebuilding the mechanical "thumper" pump every 2-4 years, no fuel filter or gascolator, dirty air filters, not using EGT and CHT gauges, not properly warming the engine before T/O, not inspecting and/or replacing spark plugs.........etc.
I've been in an Air Creation Kiss, and I can tell you that the airflow through the radiator as shown in the picture of one in my earlier post is exactly the same as the airflow I depicted in the diagram I drew for the Minimax. It is a very neat installation, that has air going in through the front of the duct, and down through the radiator that is laid almost horizontal and out toward the back. You can see it quite clearly in this photo of the underside of a Kiss 400 trike in the air. In the photo the grey area is the radiator at the bottom of the yellow ram air duct.
Thanks for the pic and clarification. I was initially thinking out the top based on this pic, however the black surface may not be perforated (my error). Might make for a nice look under a MiniMax though.
Looking at the photo you've put up I totally agree that it does look like the radiator is flat and the air exits upwards, and indeed the ram air design in your photo is different from that used on the Kiss I went in. So perhaps they've tried various configurations, with some having the air exiting downwards, and some with it exiting upwards, but the bottom of the fuel tank is directly above it, so the air would heat the fuel and that wouldn't make much sense to me.
The one I went in had been built (in the UK the Kiss was a kit aircraft) by someone at an airfield local to ours (only 5 miles away). I went over to see it when he started flying it, and I had a good look at the trike. I was particularly taken by the very neat radiator fitment, as it hadn't occurred to me that you could lay the radiator down at an angle and then use the ram air duct to force air through it. It means a much smaller head on frontal area, but with a very efficient airflow through the radiator and that sort of design would work well on a Minimax. You could fit a watercooled engine such as a 532 or 582 and use an angled radiator to give the plane a Curtiss P40 look from the front.
You'll see some footage of two Air Creation trikes flying. I was the passenger in the blue and silver one, which is a 582 powered Kiss. The red and silver one is a 912 powered iXess. At 2.12 - 2.16 you can see the radiator on the Kiss.
In case you're wondering what the video is all about, it's a section of a video I was involved in making back in 2003, called 'Flying the Dream', and it was all about how to become a microlight pilot in the UK. So we included as much flying footage as we could, and wherever possible with the pilot's eye view, so that prospective pilots would get some idea of what they could look forward to if they started learning to fly microlights.
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